In today's Ha'aretz Gideon Levy writes this piece http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/884512.html
A quote:
Haredim or Arabs - they are sons and daughters of this land. There are no democratic means to prevent them from becoming a larger portion of society in the future. Campaigns to reduce the birthrate are no less outrageous than the concepts of population transfer and ethnic cleansing.
Has he lost all perspective? Is it time the Chareidim did some soul searching why they are hated so much to the point that they are put in the same category as Arabs when it comes to a place in Eretz Israel? Or am I blaming the victim?
I just feel that unless we introspect, blaming the others instead of seeing what we bring to the table, we are lost!
ודבר זה, דרך מדרכי התשובה הוא: שבזמן שתבוא צרה ויזעקו לה ויריעו, יידעו הכול שבגלל מעשיהם הרעים הרע להן--ככתוב "עוונותיכם, הטו אלה" (ירמיהו ה,כה) לכם, וזה הוא שיגרום להם להסיר הצרה מעליהם.
ג אבל אם לא יזעקו, ולא יריעו, אלא יאמרו דבר זה ממנהג העולם אירע לנו, וצרה זו נקרוא נקרית--הרי זו דרך אכזרייות, וגורמת להם להידבק במעשיהם הרעים, ותוסיף הצרה וצרות אחרות
I am just flabbergasted and feel great pain!
The article does go on to offer a solution where the secular need to introspect and do something about it rather than blaming others. Shouldn't we learn from this?
If you want something to get upset about see this website on a spiritual insurance policy.
ReplyDeleteand read the Rabbinical endorsements and personal stories.
http://www.protectionontheroad.org/how_it_works.asp
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ReplyDeleteI see these posters all over town.
ReplyDeleteIt sometimes feels hopeless.
Josh I am glad you deleted your comment.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteYeah, I originally thought that playing devil's advocate may enable us to understand the reasoning of those with whom we disagree rather than unilaterally criticizing them (not to say that your post is guilty of this), but upon reflection, decided that attempts to do this often result in the creation of caricaturised straw men, which the jblogosphere has more than enough of. I posted before thinking.
ReplyDeleteIf I wanted to restate my point in a less inflammatory, more nuanced way, I may note that while R' Yochanan had the stature to place the fault of the churban in the lap of RZbA, it is often wiser for us to redouble our efforts in understanding the motivations behind people's seemingly illogical actions.
m not blaming anyone. All I am saying that being aware of the impact our arrogance sometimes has on others may be productive.
ReplyDeleteIt is the jackass media. This is the jackass media on a jackass medium.
ReplyDeleteI am happy Charedim do not support the web.
An unfair attack on Charedim. Why are you posting this lashon harah.
ReplyDelete>An unfair attack on Charedim. Why are you posting this lashon harah
ReplyDeleteIt is not an attack but a symptom of the hate felt by the secular to us. That hate to me must be analyzed and see how much we are responsible for it because of our attitude and actions. Only when we realize that we have a chelek in it can we reform and do something about it. By just ignoring it we will perpetuate this hatred and continue with the destruction of the klal. Tisha Bav is a good time to retrospect about this.
I think you are wrong on the editor being innocent. It is very likely the editor just has a really big ego.
ReplyDeleteJust like DovBear's big ego against Hasidim. I don't expect anyone is to take DovBear's criticism as apposed to your's to be noble.
When are we to expect the Tisha B'av post?
ReplyDeleteWe love your blog.
I am happy you are not giving us the opportunity to corrupt you by offering paid subscription. ;)
>When are we to expect the Tisha B'av post?
ReplyDeleteI enjoy writing too much so you will have to wait until after the fast! :-)
Okay I'm fine with a Harry Potter post. It seems Harry Potter has taken over the whole jblogsphere. What the hell happened to not bringing books into the home that cause confusion. (Can't remember exact Talmud right now. Had something to do with bring Kohelet into the bet midrash/home.)
ReplyDeleteMaybe you could do a post of rebuke on Harry Potter. Meanwhile I get the much needed sleep I have been lacking for many hours now.
In case you missed it: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/884489.html
ReplyDeleteIf the secular don't give any concern about what the Charedim say about them. Why should the secular expect the Charedim to give any concern about what they say. You know what the secular already know this (that Charedim are not reading the nonsense they write) and that is why their attacks only appears in their media and not in Charedi media. It is all about attention.
ReplyDeleteCharedim don't give attacks against television culture in front of other Charedim but rather in front secular. They are actually directing their attakcs to the type of people they are attacking and not just spreading them amongst themselves for attention. I must exclude Chabad from and some other fringe groups from the general word Charedim as they do make their attacks for attention and also attack other Charedim.
On this point I do think the Charedim are superior.
If you didn't see it: http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3428868,00.html
ReplyDeleteI think this further gives proof to my point.
Anonymous, (the last two posts)
ReplyDeleteI do not see it your way. I think yhese articles reinforce my argumaent and it is your attitude that is causing pirud and perpetuating the Churban. I suggest you do some introspecting today and direct your thoughts inward . if all of us would do this on a staedy basis there would be a great geulah. There would be only mumarim Lete'avon and a kiddush hashem all around.
Gideon Levy calls upon everyone with whom he vehemently disagrees with to do introspection, and if they don't come to his exclusively right conclusion then on his terms their introspection is incomplete. Regarding Religious Zionists he has said "we must disengage from them, castigate and ostracize them - until they do some true soul-searching." I think it is high time this figure come down from his high tower of "holier than thous" and do some introspection himself...
ReplyDeleteDavid: I most agree with you but I still think Gideon isn't noble.
ReplyDeleteys, I am not talking about Gideon Levy. He is representing a segment of our bretherns and they have developed a hatred to us that we need to understand, come to grips with it and try to change that. blaming the other is not our way. We look at ourselves and do our part. Unfortunately that exercise was never done because of our haughtiness and self righteousness.
ReplyDeleteIf you want criticism just open up Tanach, Talmud, Misneh Torah, etc.
ReplyDeleteGideon isn't trying to criticise us. If he was, he would go down to Meah Shearim and do his talking, where the Charedim would actually see his criticism. Not on the internet that Charedim do not use.
>Not on the internet that Charedim do not use.
ReplyDeleteYou must be hungry! it is in a newspaper - haaretz. and he is not criticizing just stating a fact that the Chareidim are hated! think about that!
I just clicked the article link again. What do you know? I haven't read it. I mistook it for another article in haaretz.
ReplyDelete>ys, I am not talking about Gideon Levy. He is representing a segment of our bretherns and they have developed a hatred to us that we need to understand
ReplyDeleteThat same segment (which most of my family belongs to) hates RZ right wingers as much if not more than the chareidim. So lets find the common denominator for the hate:
It can not be:
not working for a living
not serving in the army
narrow sectarian concern
because none of these apply to RZ right wingers
It also can not be:
Messianic politics
Rejection of Land for peace formulas
because none of these apply to chareidim.
What is the common denominator? A strong elite sense of Jewish spiritual identity which is confident that it will outlast the temporary secularism which has gripped so many of our people. Its the self-conscious (and JUSTIFIED!) spiritual superiority of the committed Jew that is at the root of this hatred.
"I hate everyone"
ReplyDelete