Thursday, April 06, 2006

Boro Park and Beit Shemesh; Twin cities?

Interesting article, and great timing on the heels of the Boro Park unrest:

Either their derech is not Torah (Gra was right) or they are so deeply flawed people that Torah cannot help.


  1. Boruch Horowitz4/06/2006 10:41 PM

    There is a third answer, namely that the derech of the specific people involved is not one of Torah. Unfortunately, these kannoim give everyone else in their Chasidic group or neighborhood a bad name; there is no need to posit that there is a problem with Chassidic philosophy in of itself. Also, I don't feel that anyone is so far gone that Torah and Teshuva can not help them.

    This brings to mind the story of the soap manufacturer who lamented to the rabbi that the people that he had seen studying Torah were also degenerate. The rabbi points to a sandbox full of filthy children, and questioned why the manufacturer's soap didn't help keep the children clean. The Rabbi used this as an analogy to the case of people who ostensibly learn, but are not inspired by the Torah to become better people.

  2. False dichotomy; there are other possibilities, including that Torah does not make good people.

  3. Boruch:

    You are right bad apples don't prove all apples wrong. However I am convinced that the Rabbis when they compared Torah to "sam Chayim and Sam Moves" good and bad medicine knew what they were talking about. Chassidism,as practiced today and sanctioned by its leaders, has evolved into a travesty of yddishkeit. So too has the Yeshivishe world- that is why we suffer so intelectually and religiously! There are good individuals and pockets of sanity in both worlds - they are unfortunately hard to find.

    Anonymous - Torah does make good people but as in my comment above it could go both ways. What did it do to you?:-)

  4. If I may ask, where do you send your children to yeshiva if the yeshivish and chassidish world is so deeply flawed. My asking isn't a challenge or attack on you, I am genuinely curious!

  5. If you will email me i will respond to you. However my kids are post Yeshiva and the problem is for my grandchildren. The problem is that in Chareidi yeshivos the level of Limudei kodesh is higher than in the others. To become an intelligent Jew there is a need to know how to learn. Parents have to offset the negative things Yeshivos instill in kids. Parents have therefore got to learn too and develop a derech that they can transmit by example. So mitzvas Velimadetem applies nowadays too.