You say the Torah is the mind of God. How does God have a mind? He doesn’t have a body. Is God more than the mind of God?
Since God has no body, He therefore cannot have a mind as EJ points out. The only way we human can try, and I emphasize, “Try” to decipher God’s overall blueprint for our existence, is by contemplating our environment and ourselves and try to make sense of it. From our perspective, we say that we are searching for God’s mind. We know rationally that God does not “think”, want, wish, have thoughts, emote or do any of the things we humans do, as that would indicate change, qualities that cannot exist in a unique transcendental entity. We however cannot imagine that the results we observe could come about from any entity that does not “think” the way we do; we therefore refer to it as the “mind” of God or Chochmato in philosophical discourse.
This brings us to the next question:
How does love of God equal knowledge of science and/or God? What is knowledge of God?
Love is a feeling that results from intimacy. We love a loved one because we know that person intimately. That differentiates love from lust between man and woman. We cannot try to know God, who does not exist in the sense we know existence, except by observing the results of His actions. Recognizing that there is a First Cause, a non-contingent entity, there is only one way to get some inkling about that entity, by understanding to the extent we can, the results of His actions by observing these results. Understanding our environment and ourselves, the results of His actions [please remember “action” is a human term for how these kinds of results can come about], is the only hope we have of getting to know God. This is not easy and requires discipline, personal self-improvement to overcome our natural narcissistic tendencies and developing our capacity for objectivity. As we acquire more and more knowledge, we become more intimate with God and love develops.
האל הנכבד והנורא הזה--מצוה לאוהבו וליראה ממנו, שנאמר "ואהבת, את ה' אלוהיך
ונאמר "את ה' אלוהיך תירא
והיאך היא הדרך לאהבתו, ויראתו: בשעה שיתבונן האדם במעשיו וברואיו הנפלאים הגדולים, ויראה מהם חכמתו שאין לה ערך ולא קץ--מיד הוא אוהב ומשבח ומפאר ומתאווה תאווה גדולה לידע השם הגדול, כמו שאמר דויד "צמאה נפשי, לאלוהים--לאל חי"
(Hilchot Yesodei Hatorah 2:1)Do we become one with knowledge by knowing the sum total of true beliefs or only a subset, like all true mathematical sentences? What about knowing the names of our children? Optional?
Medieval thinkers understood that knowledge becomes one with the mind and the mind with knowledge. We have a different understanding of how our brain works. However, we still believe that knowledge transforms the human mind from potentially knowing to in-actu knowing. That transformation is described as becoming one with knowledge. Maybe knowing the names of our children is not transformational, but knowing them certainly is.
Do you believe istakel beoraisa oobaraw almaw? [translation: He looked into the Torah and created the world]. Do you accept oraisa vehakadosh borachhoo chad hoo [translation: Torah and God are one] and ditto for yisrael veoraisa [translation: Yisrael and Torah are one]?
These quotes are Zoharic and like all Midrashim cannot be taken literally. These are concisely presented statements of medieval thinkers such as Ramban and Rambam, told in a metaphoric language and these contain a lot of thought in few words. Accepting the idea that Torah encompasses all knowledge [not only Halacha, as contemporary Yeshivot want us to believe], it is not far fetched when Torah is seen as God’s blueprint. It being God’s blueprint makes it one with God whose mind cannot be differentiated from His essence. Yisrael, the committed Torah learners, Torah in its broad sense of course, as they do what they are meant to do, become one with that knowledge. I know that readers will react by saying aren’t the “secular” scientists the ones who developed our understanding of our environment? How can you credit the Torah and those who learn it for the advances in science? The way I see it, myths of antiquity and idolatry and their followers, were a major barrier to open minded inquiry. When one can explain a phenomenon as magical, there is no further need to investigate; indeed investigation is dangerous as it might upset the magical powers that use their esoteric knowledge as tools of control. The core of Halachik Torah is the fight for the abolition of idolatry. The people that practice the Torah, in their human frailty, at times seem to be supporting and going in the wrong direction but then, every so often a person like Rambam appears on the scene and nudges us back onto the right path. It is only because of that partially successful fight against superstition and idolatry that western civilization, greatly influenced by the Judaic culture via its misguided offshoots, Islam and Christianity, made the strides that brought us modern science and empiricism.
In closing, I would like to explain my emphasis on the word “try”, conveying a tentative sense to our knowledge of God and His world and the importance of not deluding ourselves that we have all the answers or even some of them. In Mishlei 16:4-5 we read:
ד כֹּל פָּעַל יְהוָה, לַמַּעֲנֵהוּ; וְגַם-רָשָׁע, לְיוֹם רָעָה. 4
Each act of the Lord has its own end; even the wicked for an evil day.
Rambam in MN3:13 comments on this verse:
The words, " Each act of the Lord has its own end "express therefore the same idea as the following verse, "Everything that is called by my name: I have created it for my glory, I have formed it; yea, I have made it" (Isa. xliii. 7); that is to say, everything that is described as My work has been made by Me for the sake of My will and for no other purpose.
The idea is that in observing that what God made, a person contemplates His will. Lest a person think that he has apprehended God and His will in this contemplation, Shlomo Hamelech immediately warns us –
ה תּוֹעֲבַת יְהוָה, כָּל-גְּבַהּ-לֵב; יָד לְיָד, לֹא יִנָּקֶה. 5
Every one that is proud in heart is an abomination to the LORD; my hand upon it! he shall not be unpunished.
In other words, do not think and act with certainty based on that contemplation. Humans do not have the ability to really apprehend HKBH’s ways, they can try and as long as they are aware of their limitations, they can act with caution and humility. The certainty of the zealot is an abomination to HKBH.
Medieval thinkers understood that knowledge becomes one with the mind and the mind with knowledge. We have a different understanding of how our brain works.
ReplyDeleteWhat about our understanding of the brain has bearing on becoming one with knowledge?
I figured you would pick on this :-)
ReplyDeleteSo what were you thinking you would say, when I did?
ReplyDeleteEJ,
ReplyDelete1. There is only one thing that can be proven empirically whether we believe the world is eternal, and by the world I mean physical existence, or created, and that is the existence of a non-contingent entity. Although Hawkins lately has tried to argue for a spontaneous universe and therefore no need for such an entity, I will not get into this argument because I do not know enough about physics but will just propose that he is not talking about the same thing. The spontaneous development from whatever he is talking about whether it is energy or anything else is still physical and therefore contingent. Be it as it may, this non-contingent entity is what is referred to as the God of the philosophers and that is provable at least to my satisfaction.
2. All attributes of that entity that we religious Jews believe in are based on revelation transmitted to us by tradition and accepted by us as part of our commitment to religion. There is however one proviso: those beliefs may not contradict reality. It is incumbent on us to always verify that our current understanding of existence does not conflict with our beliefs. If they do we must adjust those beliefs so that they agree with reality.
3. The principal attribute that we accept about God is that He has will. Unlike the philosophers who saw God as the concept so to say behind existence and therefore by definition without choice, religion sees Him as an entity with choice and will. Religion therefore argues for creation rather than spontaneous coming into being. Creation and thus will is a matter that is not provable because anything that happened a second before things came into being can only be based on conjecture. Religion chooses Creation while others choose spontaneous existence. However the difference in perspective has great implications on how we live our lives and how we decide how to act as you will see.
4. Seeing God as Creator also assumes His will wants continuity of His creation. We look at existence, the result of His will, and we see how all things are interrelated and interdependent all moving in the direction of long term (eternal) survival. We deduce that man, a component of that greater whole, has a role to play in that system. As man is the only entity with choice and free will that role is Godlike. As that role is not clearly defined and it is up to man to figure out by using his mind and free will, it puts a great responsibility on us. It demands from us that we learn as much as we can about the environment (our existence) and by doing that try to decipher God's will. To do that we have to make sure we are objective so that our assessment is unbiased and as close to the truth as possible. Ultimately, we can only try our best to decipher God's will knowing at all time that it is only that - our best. There are no guarantees.
continuing with the last comment:
ReplyDelete5. When I say we have to discover the role we have to play in working towards continuity of existence, I am talking about matters such as our own personal long term survival, our family, our group, our society, our people, the whole of humanity and also our environment, world and to whatever role humanity may one day aspire to. For us to figure out what our responsibility is, we have to learn about our environment, how we humans function, how society functions and everything else how it is interrelated and interdependent. The Halachik part of Torah is no more than a tool to help us develop objectivity. For example, one of the core ideas Torah teaches is the eradication of idolatry. The purpose is to teach us that superstition and myths, the core of idolatry, are falsehoods that blind us from reality. They explain phenomena with lies and hold back scientific research and thinking. Ritual law is to reinforce our belief in a Unique God, a God with will while also fighting superstition. Societal laws are to make sure society functions in an orderly manner leaving time for men to study and understand their environment. Self- control laws (sexual limits and eating limits) are to fight our self-indulgent narcissistic tendencies to allow us to make objective assessment of our responsibilities.
I think this answers all your questions.
As to your inquiry about God's mind, blueprint etc... that is only a language (lashon Bnei Adam) we use to express all these cogitations about how to act in God's world according to His will. They are terms we use and it is a waste of time trying to define them further with all kinds of mystical, kabalistic or Greek terms. All we know about God is what we see around us and from that we extrapolate backwards based on the perspective taught to us by tardyon and revelation.
Of course all I wrote above is just an outline of the general thinking process and how I understand Judaic religion.There is much more to talk about when we start dealing with the details and how the Torah leads us towards seeking the truth. I know that many people think they have found the truth. They are the farthest from the truth and dangerous. All we can do is work towards it - Lo alecha Hamelacha ligmor. There are no definite answers and solutions just trying to do our best.
I hope this explains many of the questions you have about my thinking on these matters.
As to some specific questions:
>Or are you really saying all knowledge that helps us act responsibly is part of Torah, But I can skip the classes on the rings of Saturn, and there is knowledge of the world that is actually bitul torah.
Correct but as long as the knowledge we are seeking is to understand our existence or parts thereof it is Talmud Torah , no matter how trivial it seems at first blush.
>On 3Jews you said something I can’t figure out. You wrote “God is in a sense the world's form in Aristotelian language. Existence, the concepts and underlying "knowledge" that are needed for existence to exist are out there. If we understand God as the only necessary existent then He is the source of all that "knowledge"… for it is only one aspect of the effects caused by God's necessary existence.”
I was trying to explain how we see God's will in creation. The rules that underlie existence, the science thereof, is seen from our perspective of a creation with a Creator, as the mind of that Creator - the source of all that.
Thank you for the clarifications. I feel we have made progress. Nevertheless your answers remind me of the proof for the existence of God that goes:
ReplyDeleteGod exists (premise)
Ergo God exists.(Conclusion)
If someone had doubts about the conclusion, undoubtedly skepticism will travel upwards to the premise.
So now confining myself only to what you said in response to me, and asking only for clarifications, here are some of the places where I remain unclear. Whatever my inclinations I will make every effort not to come back, or ein ledavar sof.
1) How do you go from “knowledge and information are crucial … for us to know how to act” to “ALL knowledge that leads to our better understanding of our universe, world and society helps us act responsibly in the long term and is part of Torah. Is this an argument misafek…you never know what will come in handy? Or are you really saying all knowledge that helps us act responsibly is part of Torah, But I can skip the classes on the rings of Saturn, and there is knowledge of the world that is actually bitul torah.
2)On 3Jews you said something I can’t figure out. You wrote “God is in a sense the world's form in Aristotelian language. Existence, the concepts and underlying "knowledge" that are needed for existence to exist are out there. If we understand God as the only necessary existent then He is the source of all that "knowledge"… for it is only one aspect of the effects caused by God's necessary existence.” No clue.
3)You acknowledge that saying God has a mind is an anthropomorphism, but is justifiable because we “cannot imagine that the results we observe could come about from any entity that does not “think” the way we do.” Passing over the question why should the use of anthropomorphisms be subject to the limits of our imagination, I want to know whether the notion of “God’s blueprint for the universe” & “God’s overall blueprint for our existence” are also anthropomorphisms? Do we know he had/has a blueprint? What would a blueprint for random mutations be like? Is this blueprint something like architectural drawings. God the architect/builder created the blueprint(s) and now seeks to create a universe in accordance with this blueprint.
And again, what is the exact relationship between the blueprints (the chochmah, the Torah) and God. We are back to ousias and hypostases.
Questions are easy and answers are difficult, so please answer only if it suits you.
this was EJ"s comment I responded to in the two comments above. For some reason it kept on getting lost.
ReplyDeleteThank you for the clarifications. I feel we have made progress. Nevertheless your answers remind me of the proof for the existence of God that goes:
God exists (premise)
Ergo God exists.(Conclusion)
If someone had doubts about the conclusion, undoubtedly skepticism will travel upwards to the premise.
So now confining myself only to what you said in response to me, and asking only for clarifications, here are some of the places where I remain unclear. Whatever my inclinations I will make every effort not to come back, or ein ledavar sof.
1) How do you go from “knowledge and information are crucial … for us to know how to act” to “ALL knowledge that leads to our better understanding of our universe, world and society helps us act responsibly in the long term and is part of Torah. Is this an argument misafek…you never know what will come in handy? Or are you really saying all knowledge that helps us act responsibly is part of Torah, But I can skip the classes on the rings of Saturn, and there is knowledge of the world that is actually bitul torah.
2)On 3Jews you said something I can’t figure out. You wrote “God is in a sense the world's form in Aristotelian language. Existence, the concepts and underlying "knowledge" that are needed for existence to exist are out there. If we understand God as the only necessary existent then He is the source of all that "knowledge"… for it is only one aspect of the effects caused by God's necessary existence.” No clue.
3)You acknowledge that saying God has a mind is an anthropomorphism, but is justifiable because we “cannot imagine that the results we observe could come about from any entity that does not “think” the way we do.” Passing over the question why should the use of anthropomorphisms be subject to the limits of our imagination, I want to know whether the notion of “God’s blueprint for the universe” & “God’s overall blueprint for our existence” are also anthropomorphisms? Do we know he had/has a blueprint? What would a blueprint for random mutations be like? Is this blueprint something like architectural drawings. God the architect/builder created the blueprint(s) and now seeks to create a universe in accordance with this blueprint.
And again, what is the exact relationship between the blueprints (the chochmah, the Torah) and God. We are back to ousias and hypostases.
Questions are easy and answers are difficult, so please answer only if it suits you.
Posted by evanstonjew to Believing is Knowing at 12/04/2010 9:29 PM