tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21749731.post115032758459338799..comments2023-10-12T10:09:54.121-04:00Comments on Believing is Knowing: A Shikse and a Goy - a chillul Hashem.David Guttmannhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07668302013143561290noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21749731.post-1150448838827487962006-06-16T05:07:00.000-04:002006-06-16T05:07:00.000-04:00>goyim haareylim Good point. Do you think he was e...>goyim haareylim <BR/><BR/>Good point. Do you think he was excluding the Muslims? Did he consider them more Ba'alei rachamim? I doubt it. Tzarich Iyun.David Guttmannhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07668302013143561290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21749731.post-1150424829314127712006-06-15T22:27:00.000-04:002006-06-15T22:27:00.000-04:00"the same people"well, some of them, though it see..."the same people"<BR/><BR/>well, some of them, though it seems pretty common.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21749731.post-1150424764429354322006-06-15T22:26:00.000-04:002006-06-15T22:26:00.000-04:00"Fragger -- That is exactly the reason. Most clean..."Fragger -- That is exactly the reason. Most cleaning help is Russian, Polish, Ukrainian, etc., precisely the people who mistreated us in the old country. Now it is coming back to them."<BR/><BR/>What I object to is that the same people who yell and crowd about "secular influence" seem OK with having Poles and Ukranians etc. around their houses all the time, as babysitters, nannies, etc!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21749731.post-1150424591440525912006-06-15T22:23:00.000-04:002006-06-15T22:23:00.000-04:00"When I hear people referring to their housekeeper..."When I hear people referring to their housekeepers or the ones attending on older people as “Die Shikse” or “Der Goy” "der Urel"" Die Goyte""Der Shaigetz", I cringe."<BR/><BR/>I agree with you. However, I do feel contrained to point out that the rambam himself refers to the goyim haareylim in this very passage as the good readers picking up nuance notice (not that he is calling them this to their face, but still, the objection is a bit odd). <BR/><BR/>"Those doing this abomination are the same who are worried about the bugs in the water and vegetables, the ones who look askance at anybody that deviates from their supposed Mesora."<BR/><BR/>My experience is that the worst treatment is not going on at the hands of this crowd by any means (many of them can't afford help!) but more by people who are loosely "heimish," or is the term "charedi lite". These are people who if they are checking and filtering, do so when it's the path of least resistance, i.e. when it becomes socially unacceptable to do otherwise and/or so prevalent in the shops in their neighborhood that it's no big deal. Not quite fair to tar the more earnest crowd with this (though I daresay a bit of mussar will do no harm).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21749731.post-1150413400334266942006-06-15T19:16:00.000-04:002006-06-15T19:16:00.000-04:00David,>don't think there are avadim nowadays Mat I...David,<BR/><BR/><BR/>>don't think there are avadim nowadays <BR/><BR/>Mat I quote "Mi shekoneh Isha Koneh Baal Latzmo. :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21749731.post-1150413032460376552006-06-15T19:10:00.000-04:002006-06-15T19:10:00.000-04:00Js,I am not an expert in Hilchos Avadim. The Thais...Js,<BR/><BR/>I am not an expert in Hilchos Avadim. The Thais are definitely not Avadim just employees and paid workers. Here Rambma talks about real slaves who were considered semi Jewish. Look through Hilchos avadim and you will get a picture. I don't think there are avadim nowadays although we still find teshuvot regarding in medieval times.David Guttmannhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07668302013143561290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21749731.post-1150405697521889762006-06-15T17:08:00.000-04:002006-06-15T17:08:00.000-04:00I wonder if what you quoted from the Rambam applie...I wonder if what you quoted from the Rambam applies also to avadim that were ovdei a.z.?<BR/>BTW,what is the halachah,can one have an 'eved',well lets call him nowadays,a 'servant'who is oved a.z.?<BR/>Here in Israel it's halacha lema'aseh. There are many Thais here who are ovdei a.z.<BR/>I havn't had the chance to ask the Charedim or dati'im what heter they have to employ them...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21749731.post-1150361475141185432006-06-15T04:51:00.000-04:002006-06-15T04:51:00.000-04:00Fragger -- That is exactly the reason. Most cleani...Fragger -- That is exactly the reason. Most cleaning help is Russian, Polish, Ukrainian, etc., precisely the people who mistreated us in the old country. Now it is coming back to them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21749731.post-1150337995040859572006-06-14T22:19:00.000-04:002006-06-14T22:19:00.000-04:00DG: That's some tough talk. Good for you!DG: That's some tough talk. Good for you!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13441809988487585009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21749731.post-1150336725599249322006-06-14T21:58:00.000-04:002006-06-14T21:58:00.000-04:00>and Rambam himself says we can kill them.http://w...>and Rambam himself says we can kill them.<BR/><BR/>http://www.mechon-mamre.org/i/e508.htm<BR/><BR/>יג וכן ציווה משה רבנו מפי הגבורה, לכוף את כל באי העולם לקבל כל מצוות שנצטווה נוח, וכל מי שלא קיבל, ייהרג.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13441809988487585009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21749731.post-1150333294687916622006-06-14T21:01:00.000-04:002006-06-14T21:01:00.000-04:00ROTFL (Acronym for Roll On The Floor Laughing) .Th...ROTFL (Acronym for Roll On The Floor Laughing) <BR/>.<BR/>This is a very hot subject with me. Aside from the blatant nconsistancies I just can't comprehend how children and granchildren of Holocaust survivors could be so inhumane to human dignity of indigenous peoples.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21749731.post-1150330419823742272006-06-14T20:13:00.000-04:002006-06-14T20:13:00.000-04:00You see fragger - I have influenced you! You see K...You see fragger - I have influenced you! You see Kabbalah in every corner! :-)David Guttmannhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07668302013143561290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21749731.post-1150329766509828372006-06-14T20:02:00.000-04:002006-06-14T20:02:00.000-04:00David, Now you sound rational;-). How's this - If...David,<BR/><BR/> Now you sound rational;-)<BR/>.<BR/> How's this - If only some alleged segula came about from not acting with indiscriminate disdain towards goyim or if some mekubel denounced it then people would stop. The fact that its common sense or even explicit in the good book is insufficientAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com