tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21749731.post114112267282023433..comments2023-10-12T10:09:54.121-04:00Comments on Believing is Knowing: Stylus, Writing and Tablets - Miracles or nature?David Guttmannhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07668302013143561290noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21749731.post-1141394072208726102006-03-03T08:54:00.000-05:002006-03-03T08:54:00.000-05:00Anonymous - Thank you. How could I miss it?However...Anonymous - Thank you. How could I miss it?<BR/><BR/>However what exactly was that Keshet? I know Ramban et al. but I don't find it convincing. Until I do i will lreave it with a question mark in my mind.David Guttmannhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07668302013143561290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21749731.post-1141384777670438262006-03-03T06:19:00.000-05:002006-03-03T06:19:00.000-05:00keshet in pirkei avos = the keshet of noach's time...keshet in pirkei avos = the keshet of noach's timeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21749731.post-1141204433867986752006-03-01T04:13:00.000-05:002006-03-01T04:13:00.000-05:00Mis-nagid, I think we have gone over this many tim...Mis-nagid, I think we have gone over this many times. You are obsessed with history and historical truths while I see Judaism as an ancient religion that has a document they see as Divine as their guide which directs and influences its evolution through history. This document interprets events ontologically in such a way that as each generation grows further and devlops intelectually it can reinterpret the same events according to its new state. This will go on ad infinitum even after Yemos Hamoshiach, probably accelerating with the help of Sanhedrin which will even further push us along. The whole western world has been influenced by this system and with communications slowly the rest of the world is following. Even you Mis-nagid are influenced by your antagonism to it which is exactly as was intended. Keep it up.David Guttmannhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07668302013143561290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21749731.post-1141179874051551652006-02-28T21:24:00.000-05:002006-02-28T21:24:00.000-05:00So the stick turned into a snake due to fortuitous...So the stick turned into a snake due to fortuitous timing?<BR/><BR/>Removing the supernatural miracles from the Torah violates its text and disrespects its authors and history by artificially replacing its original meaning with your own poorly-fitting but more philosophically palatable alternative. What you're describing is not a traditional Judaism, but a syncretism of Orthodox Jewish practice and Unitarian belief. It's a lofty goal, but any attempt to portray your effort as historically authentic or derived from tradition is patently dishonest. Yes, that applies to the Rambam himself too; just replace Unitarianism and modern philosophy with Aristotle and ancient philosophy.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13441809988487585009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21749731.post-1141169431037737832006-02-28T18:30:00.000-05:002006-02-28T18:30:00.000-05:00ShragieA. You are repeating Ramban's approach whic...Shragie<BR/><BR/>A. You are repeating Ramban's approach which is legit but not Rambam's. One day I will discuss the two shitos and what drives each and I have a feeling there will be surprises.<BR/><BR/>B.Moreh 2:28 and here it is verbatim Pines:<BR/><BR/> Thus he imparts in this verse the information that the world is the work of the deity and that it is eternal a parte post#. He also states the cause of its being eternal a parte post; namely, in his words: nothing can be added to it, nor anything taken from it. For this is the cause of its being forever. It is as if he said that the thing that is changed , is changed because of a deficiency in it that should be made good or because some excess that is not needed and should be got rid of. Now the works of the deity are most perfect, and with regard to them there is no possibility of an excess or a deficiency. Accordingly they are of necessity permanently established as they are, for there is no possibility of something calling for a change in them<BR/><BR/>There are more places incluiding Shemona Perakim but that will appear in an upcoming article in Hakirah .David Guttmannhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07668302013143561290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21749731.post-1141157034802097702006-02-28T15:03:00.000-05:002006-02-28T15:03:00.000-05:00DG: Good point. What I mean is mind distorted by r...DG: Good point. What I mean is mind distorted by religious emotion.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13441809988487585009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21749731.post-1141154268348029902006-02-28T14:17:00.000-05:002006-02-28T14:17:00.000-05:00David, Granted- Miracles are the exceptions to th...David,<BR/><BR/> Granted- Miracles are the exceptions to the rules of nature that God created. <BR/><BR/>A) Miracles, as the converse to nature, provide proof to God’s sovereignty over nature for He is the only and supreme being who can alter nature. Thus, the only imperfection implied in nature via the miracle is that nature is not its own boss so to speak.<BR/><BR/>B) Can you clarify where the Rambam said that miracles detract from the sovereignty of God?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13441809988487585009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21749731.post-1141149537176181332006-02-28T12:58:00.000-05:002006-02-28T12:58:00.000-05:00JF - You mean religious emotion. Emotion dictated ...JF - You mean religious emotion. Emotion dictated by mind is avodas hashem, mind dictated by emotion is Avoda zara.David Guttmannhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07668302013143561290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21749731.post-1141147653767823612006-02-28T12:27:00.000-05:002006-02-28T12:27:00.000-05:00The idea that miracles reflect an imperfection run...The idea that miracles reflect an imperfection runs counter to the religious mind.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13441809988487585009noreply@blogger.com